INDUSTRY MATTERS: WindUp’s Blake Malin looks back on 11 years of unbridled success

WindUp Watch Fair is a phenomenon like no other. Launched back in 2015, on the back of the success of Worn & Wound, the debut event took place in a tiny SoHo location with a handful of exhibitors. It is now the most talked-about watch show for microbrands on the planet. The remit, scale, and exhibitor list has changed unrecognizably from its humble beginnings, but the brain trust behind it has remained constant. Co-Founder Blake Malin sat down with his (almost) namesake, Watch Insider’s Daniel Malins, to shed some light on how a small passion project took over the watch community.

Watch Insider: How do you feel about the decade’s journey you’ve been on as a business? And how similar does the show look today versus the vision that you may or may not have had for it 10 years ago?

Blake Malin: I think that’s a really good question. The landscape of watch events has changed quite a bit over the last 10 years. And I don’t mean this in any pompous way, but I think WindUp was really a pioneer in the watch event space in setting the trend for this more approachable, down-to-earth event for everyone. A lot of other events have popped up around Windup in different markets, and honestly we take a lot of pride in that.

I think we have a lot of belief in the model for what WindUp is: that watch events should be for everybody. They should be a big tent. They have the potential to bring in people who have been collecting for 30 years and people who just bought their first watch a week ago or haven’t even bought a watch yet. We get to see that reaction from people all the time. They come in and they say: “Oh, I’ve been meaning to look at this watch for years. I just never got a chance to.” Or they’re like: “I just got into this. This is crazy. I can’t believe this is the scale of this hobby.” So I think it’s great that there are more events like it happening all over the place.

With the WindUp event itself, if you were to look at what it looked like from the first event to now, it’s very different. We’ve expanded to other cities. The first event had 18 brands in New York, and now the New York event has somewhere between 140 and 150 brands. So it’s a huge growth but we have really focused on keeping those core principles of what makes WindUp, WindUp. It’s free and open to the public. We really deter brands from building huge elaborate presentation spaces. We want brands to be on equal footing or as equal a footing as they can be. We want to make sure that it feels incredibly approachable for the people who are coming to the show. And that has remained true the whole time. So I’m really proud of the fact that we’ve been able to stay true to the WindUp principles while also growing to an event that happens in four major cities in the US. We really have an event scheduled that’s year-round at this point.

WI: If I’d given you a pen and paper 10 years ago and said: “In your wildest dreams, if you grow at X percent a year, what’s it going to look like after a decade?” would it be broadly in line with what you see today across Chicago, San Francisco, Dallas, and New York?

BM: Yeah. Before we started recording this interview you asked what business plan we had. We really didn’t have a plan going into it so it was very instinctive. When we did the first event, we thought we didn’t really like going to most watched events. They felt very stuffy to us and if I tried to bring my girlfriend or some of my friends to it, they’d feel even further out of place. So we thought, let’s create an event that is more in line with the thing we like to go to. I would say in that first year, I don’t really know that we could have imagined it being where it is now. Once we saw the reaction and we started getting feedback from people in other markets, it hit us pretty quickly that this had legs and could become something that goes to other cities.

Once we started expanding, I think it was always the vision to touch all different points of the US; now we’re east, west, south and north, so no matter where you are in the country there’s a lineup that’s close enough for you to make a weekend of it. So yeah, from the first event we never could have imagined it to be this big, but once we started growing, this was the vision. I don’t know if you have this feeling, as someone who’s started a business, but I think it’s hard to imagine success before you achieve it. I didn’t know what my expectations were going into the first event, and if no-one had showed up, it would have been like, “Okay, we gave it a try.” For us, we really had to see the success first for us to really get excited and decide we really wanted to grow quite a bit.

WI: When this thing started, you just said yourself that it deliberately went in a different direction to the more traditional shows that you’d been exposed to. But what you often see in business is that something that starts from a counterculture perspective then becomes the mainstream. And it can be difficult to manage that transition. to some businesses. You’re no longer the young pretender, so how much more difficult is it to maintain your DNA? For instance, you said that you encourage exhibitors to avoid building massive stands, but the pressure on that position year must grow each year because you’re going to have brands wanting to dominate the space in front of such a phenomenal audience.

BM: I think a lot of times those countercultures or new approaches to things are bred out of enthusiasm for whatever it is about. For us, we were just watch enthusiasts. And we felt like, “Hey, we have our finger on the pulse of this, we are the new generation of watch collectors and enthusiasts. We know what we want.” So I agree, what was once counterculture becomes mainstream. But I think for us it was about proving the point that this is actually what people want. This is what the watch community needs and what young enthusiasts are looking for.

We certainly have a number of more mainstream brands that participate in Windup now, but it is still not a platform that some more mainstream luxury brands are comfortable with. And we won’t and don’t compromise the principles of what Windup is. So, of course, we’ve accommodated but, to your point, Christopher Ward or Bremont or Citizen Group or any of these lead sponsors at our events, their booths look very different than what they once did, but comparing them to what you might see at a Baselworld or a Watches and Wonders is still comparatively very modest. Plus, to put it bluntly, we really have these brands come to the event on our terms. We want to make it a wonderful experience for them and we’re very client focused. But it’s been 10 years of getting certain brands to understand what it is we’re trying to do, what the brand of WindUp is all about. They’re understanding more and more what the value of the enthusiast is and how you reach the enthusiast.

WI: That’s interesting. In my head I think that achieving what you’ve mentioned is easier with a dozen or so brands that you can get to know really well and work very closely together with. But the amazing thing about WindUp is that it has literally hundreds of exhibitors, which should put a strain on those founding principles, but seemingly doesn’t.

BM: Yeah, for sure. Now that we’re at the scale that we are, when we’re in the thick of planning an event with 150 attendees, we’re like: “What are we doing?” It’s a ton to manage and we have a pretty small team. But I think that’s what’s so cool about WindUp. Even with the mainstream brands that have come into the fold, there’s a very collegial feeling among the brands, which there always has been among the smaller independent ‘micro brands.’ Like Jon Ferrer from Brew is friends with VJ from Oris. And I think that that extends to an understanding that the community is not the community with five brands, the community is the community with 150 brands. And it’s a case of rising tides raising all ships. That’s why we have such a high rate of folks returning to the event year after year.

WI: Can I just ask you a little bit about the dynamics and the relationship between Worn & Wound and WindUp? It’s obviously all under the same umbrella, but one is a physical event, the other is not. To what extent does one complement the other? Almost every watch magazine that has dipped its toe into events like WindUp has failed miserably, certainly in the UK. It seems what you do is a simple formula, but if it was that simple, everyone would be smashing it. So, what’s your secret to getting those people through the door?

BM: Well, we love having along RedBar and Complecto folks and anyone who’s involved in any niche or enthusiast component of the watch world. We want them to come and we want to create a great experience for them. But honestly, Worn & Wound is coming up on its 15th anniversary next year, and for many years of our existence we were just really staying true to that enthusiast perspective and creating content that we thought enthusiasts would find interesting. It’s been 15 years of building a really organic, authentic audience of people that feel a very close connection to Worn & Wound. I never cease to be amazed when I go to the events and see the level of familiarity people feel with Worn & Wound. This is a credit to everybody on the team. Over a decade of building an authentic community of enthusiasts, such that we can now go to major cities and attract that number of people.

When we moved into [New York’s] Chelsea Market, that was a real boon for the event. We were getting all this organic foot traffic. And when we left Chelsea Market, I think we were very anxious about whether or not we’d be able to bring the audience with us, or whether it was more of a foot traffic thing. And obviously, we’re very fortunate we were able to bring that audience with us.

In regard to the connection between Worn & Wound and WindUp — Worn & Wound is the digital hub for enthusiasm; WindUp Watch Fair is in-person. So, we’re reaching many people through Worn & Wound, and it’s through that channel that we’re able to bring people into WindUp.

I’m really proud of the fact that we’ve been able to stay true to the WindUp principles while also growing to an event that happens in four major cities in the US.”

WI: Even with multiple events now, there are going to be about 350 days of the year where you’re not doing Windup. So to have Worn & Wound to lean back on is key, I guess.

BM: Taking more of a business perspective on things, we have the WindUp events, which, from a cash flow perspective, have their peaks and their valleys. We have our online shop, which is a more steady flow of revenue, obviously peaking in certain periods of the year. And then we also have our advertising and partnership program. So, I think that’s part of what’s allowed us to have success as an independent brand in an industry that is dominated by venture-backed organizations. We’ve smartly diversified our revenue streams. We might not make a dime from WindUp for a month or two, but we’ve got other streams of revenue.

WI: How independent are both operations? Do Worn & Wound and WindUp have operational independence? Is it conceivable that there could be a situation where Worn & Wound only just breaks even but you’d still consider it well worth it because it would still be a great marketing tool for WindUp, which presumably does make money?

BM: The Worn & Wound editorial aspect is fully independent. It’s not a separate business, but Zach Kazan is our editorial director. He manages a team of contributors who work on the website, and, there’s no managerial crossover.

WI: So, hypothetically, even if WindUp disappeared tomorrow, Zach’s day-to-day operation would still look broadly the same?

BM: Yeah, for sure. Anecdotally, when WindUp wants to communicate something on the blog or we have a piece of content from one of our paid partners, that team has to go to Zach and get his permission of what day it goes up. It’s not like we’re dictating those terms to him. So he really is the master of his domain.

But yeah, if WindUp Watch Fair went away, I don’t think the editorial team’s life would change very much. That said, I think it’s a really great opportunity for them to get in front of brands. And so they come to the event and they make content, but we do keep that stuff separate.

WI: What about the evolution of what’s colloquially known as New York Watch Week? The two anchor events are yourself and WatchTime at Gotham Hall. But last year, more than ever, I saw multiple other events spring up. Do you see that as piggybacking on the investment that you have both made?

BM: Yeah, I think that you can get caught up in that aspect of it. There is a huge financial risk and a huge sweat equity that goes into putting on the show. But the other events and small gatherings that pop up around it are putting in a tremendous amount of effort too. So I don’t want to take away from them. I really just try to reflect on what we’ve built and what an amazing thing it is that that weekend in October has really become — the global epicenter of watch activation and watch community. In a perfect world, does somebody give us all the credit in the world and maybe everyone voluntarily gives us a cut of whatever they’re making? That would be great. I’m kidding! We’re really proud of what we built, and I’m excited for the enthusiasts and the watch community at large that they just have even more to go to, including WatchTime — I think the event that they’re putting on is great.

We’ve smartly diversified our revenue streams. We might not make a dime from WindUp for a month or two, but we’ve got other streams of revenue.”

WI: When I think about WindUp and WatchTime, in terms of the production and the type of event, you have your thing and they have their thing. The crossover isn’t huge. That’s what makes both work really well together in my opinion.

BM: Yeah, and that’s a big piece of why we work so closely together. We communicate with them about show dates, we coordinate with them about promoting our events. We both really value what the other person is doing.

WI: All those smaller events have got to help, in my opinion, no matter how frustrating it is that you and WatchTime put in 99% of the effort and money. It helps secure the future of those few days — ‘New York Watch Week’ — and you’ll always be the dominant participant.

BM: I appreciate you saying that. I also think, on a personal level, as someone who’s started their own business, you can’t take everything personally. You’re pouring all this blood, sweat and tears into this thing that you’re building, but you can’t get worked up all the time about things like the competitiveness of business or the fairness, or lack thereof. If I got too worked up about these things all the time, I think I’d probably have an aneurysm or something! So I try to just keep a healthy attitude about it.

WI: As you know, the United States has been, by some distance, the number one market for watches for years now. In fact, almost since the day that WindUp launched! To what extent have you reacted to this surge in the collector community, and to what extent have you actually been responsible for a lot of that increase in demand?

BM: In all fairness, I think you have to say that the independent watch brand community started everything. The products wouldn’t have existed if there weren’t cool independent watch brands for us to talk about. But I definitely also think that the platform that we’ve created and the promotional tools we’ve created, through the blog and the events, have contributed to their success as well. And I think they would agree. I think it’s a very symbiotic relationship. And I also think that it was very much the ‘right place, right time.’ It’s a very different landscape now than it was when we started, talking about these brands.

WI: Well, without you I’m not sure there would have been a legitimate option for a lot of micro brands over the past 10 years, in terms of getting in front of real people. You’ve helped to really legitimize these companies, which otherwise might be dismissed as Instagram brands. I see WindUp as the stop gap between Instagram and full retail, which we know comes with smaller margins and huge operational costs.

BM: I think that’s very kind of you to say. A big part of what I love about doing WindUp is when we do get one of these really small independent brands that come to the show and they’re really getting in front of people for the first time. They tell me that they spoke to hundreds of people who think their product is cool and they want to support them. Getting to see that feedback loop at the show has been really great.

The show is profitable for us. It’s a key part of our business and I can make no doubt about that. But I think that for us to get to where we’ve got to has required us to do it for a love of the game, right? We built it slowly but surely. And, despite profit margins, we kept doing it because we thought it was a value. And that’s not really an option if you’re not independent, and if you’re not willing to take those risks.

WI: What does expansion and growth look like? Adding more cities in the States? Would you go abroad, which comes with a whole host of challenges? Or are you happy to rest on your laurels now that you’ve climbed to the summit?

BM: I think the landscape has changed quite a bit, in terms of what events are out there. For us it’s a question of what other markets in the US would we realistically want to do? Or potentially what other formats would we realistically want to consider that would maybe make participation make a little bit more sense for some brands? Right now, I can’t say we have any definitive plans to expand. In previous years, I was a little bit more focused on potentially doing something in London, which we would still love to do one day. But again, British Watchmakers’ Day is a wonderful event and we don’t want to take anything away from that. And if we ever did anything, it would be complementary.

I think if we’re going to grow the event any further, it’s really going to be to meet demand. With New York, internally, we have had conversations about needing more space than what we have for certain things that we want to do. In Chicago, this year we’re actually moving to a new venue and growing. So there’s more potential there. And I think Dallas will be a show that’s going to grow quite a bit. Last year, we did it in just two days. This year, we did it for three days. I wouldn’t be surprised if Dallas gets a little bit bigger in the future too.

WI: Maybe you’re at the stage of growth where changes and scaling up don’t look as noticeable as they did in the first 10 years?

BM: Yeah. I want to give a lot of credit to the team that we have here. Growing so aggressively like we have over the last five or so years is a ton of work. There’s a lot of burnout involved. There are a lot of late nights. Like it’s putting a lot on the shoulders of the people that work here. I want to make sure everything’s operating as efficiently as it possibly can so that everybody’s quality of life here is as good as it can be. And not to say we’re giving people a break, because I don’t think that’s not quite it, but we’ve grown to a really significant size. We’re really proud of where we are. And if we could take the next couple of years to really optimize efficiency and make this as seamless a process as humanly possible, I think that would be a great success for us as a business. Now that we have four events a year, it almost feels like we’re never not planning the next event.

WI: What about some of the things that have gone wrong with the events over the years? I imagine that your positive feedback percentage is probably higher than any event in the watch space, but a small percentage of a big number probably still affects you personally.

BM: We’ve been very fortunate that, from a logistics perspective, we’ve had a really minimal amount of major challenges that we’ve had to deal with. Honestly, it’s all boring stuff, like the freight truck was supposed to come at this time and then they didn’t, or they were supposed to bring up a power pallet jack but they didn’t, so now we have to re-palletize all the things on the street. Or like the signage was all messed up, or it all was falling off the wall. It’s boring, very nitty gritty stuff like that.

In terms of brand happiness, I think we really try to take a very client-focused approach. We’re very hands on with the brands that come to the show and we try to make sure everybody has a good time. But I think if I were to put a point on it, there is no making everyone happy. I think maybe the most challenging part about growing the event has been coming to the understanding that you’re not going to make everyone happy and it just might not be the event for everyone. You try to make everyone as happy as they possibly can be, but sometimes it’s just not the right fit and you have to be willing to accept that and communicate that in a way that’s pleasant and continues the relationship in other ways.

With 150 exhibitors a few of those brands are not going to be happy. We’re going to do something that makes them upset or they’re not going to be pleased with the turnout of the event or they’re not going to be happy with the sales at the event if they’re selling something. That happens. And we just do our best to try to mitigate and make people as happy as we can.

The thing that was probably the most stressful was Covid because the Covid breakout here in the US really started in California. The shutdown happened weeks before the San Francisco show. And this is before we really had staff to manage it. So it was really just on me and my partners, and making the call to cancel an event like that was a very challenging time.

When you’re in New York, you have this expectation of what a luxury buyer is, but when you’re walking around in Brooklyn you’ll see a guy wearing a pair of Alden boots that cost $600, and a vintage denim jacket that might have cost several hundred dollars.”

WI: Maybe it also makes it all the sweeter now. To find the rainbow, you’ve got to put up with the rain, as Dolly Parton said! There’s this thing — maybe it’s a British thing — where people want you to fail almost as soon as you succeed. I don’t know why. What I find amazing is how much love there still is for you guys, despite you having grown to an unrecognizable scale.

BM: The thing is, events are expensive and are a ton of work for the brands. Brands that come in like Christopher Ward, flying in half a dozen people, sometimes more, the financial expense of it, the logistical expense of it. They have every right to demand a certain quality and have expectations. So we understand that, and we want to try to meet them.

I think that there’s this attempt of people trying to put on this veneer of running a business and it being all about making money and achieving tons of success and everything’s great all the time. When the reality is more often than not the total opposite, in that every day is a grind. Every day presents new challenges. You’re always dealing with something that you weren’t expecting to deal with.

At the end of the shows, we send around a survey, we collect data from the attendees on a number of different points about the show, from logistics to the audience to sales. We really try to use that data to inform what we’re doing moving forward.

WI: When I think about the relatively relaxed nature of Windup, I don’t see much pressure to buy there. You’re just creating an environment and if people buy, they buy, and if they don’t, they don’t. You’re not vetting them, you’re not charging them to get in. Of course, individual exhibitors want to secure customers, but that’s on them. It feels to me that a lot of watch retailers are becoming more hands-off like this in their sales approach, so I wonder whether you see yourselves as having been ahead of the curve with that way of transacting?

BM: Yeah, I think that if I surveyed 20 of my friends and asked what environment they are most likely to buy something in, most people would ask for a relaxed environment. So for us, it was really just what we wanted to create for ourselves. Sales are very strong at the show. A number of brands are doing really significant transactions throughout the weekend. And I think, again, a lot of that has to do with people just feeling comfortable coming in.

One of the conversations we had with brands a lot at the beginning of WindUp was really trying to communicate that there’s this expectation of the luxury buyer and who they are, but in reality people are spending money on all kinds of things who don’t necessarily fit that mold. When you’re in New York, you have this expectation of what a luxury buyer is, but when you’re walking around in Brooklyn you’ll see a guy wearing a pair of Alden boots that cost $600, and a vintage denim jacket that might have cost several hundred dollars. They might not be into watches yet, but they could be because they care about style and they care about heritage and they care about manufacturing. And they have the means to be a watch collector. And that was the person that we really wanted brands to understand existed. And that’s what you see at the show. You don’t go into WindUp and see a bunch of very typical luxury retail consumers walking around the show. People come to the show with a Patek on one wrist and a Seiko on the other.

But, ultimately, it’s a very high level of transaction. Anecdotally, we had a brand come to Windup New York recently who reported post-show that their New York retail location had its best weekend ever following the event. They attributed that to the community that they were tapping into at Windup of people who weren’t necessarily going into the retail location to begin with. So, for us, from the beginning it was saying let’s break down the barriers for these people who may very well want to be watch enthusiasts, but they don’t feel comfortable in the traditional retail environment. And that’s what we’ve created with WindUp.

WI: If we take the hypothetical guy in the vintage denim jacket, what can you do to capture that person, from a marketing and communications perspective?

BM: Well, social media has changed so much. The algorithms have become a lot more challenging. I think earlier in our life cycle, Instagram was potentially more of a place people would discover things. But the way the algorithm and the system works now, maybe a little bit less so. But we really believe in the power of the enthusiast here.

There’s research to back up that niche enthusiasts are on the bleeding edge. They’re trying new things before anybody else. They’re the source of information that their friends are all going to go to when they want to learn about something, right? When you want to get into cycling, you go to your buddy who’s got the $5,000 bike and you’re like, “Hey, tell me about cycling.” They’re more inclined to keep products longer-term and customize them with new straps or carrying case. And again, going back to our earlier conversation, we spent close to 15 years cultivating the enthusiast within this niche. So, reaching that person who’s on the periphery is what we’ve been investing a lot of time and effort into doing this whole time. And I think as it relates to the show specifically, a key piece we’re offering is a lot of variety in terms of types of watches. There’s something for everybody there, both in style and in price. It’s the ideal environment if you want to dip your toes into this hobby.

WI: Here’s a mischievous hypothetical scenario relating to the challenge of sticking to your DNA. Say we end this interview and there’s an e-mail in your inbox from Rolex USA saying that they want to be part of WindUp New York this year with a bottomless budget, but their condition is that they’ve got to have the whole downstairs. How do you react?

BM: Respectfully, we would say no, to be perfectly blunt. That’s not what the event is. We would want to have a conversation with anyone. And we are capable of very politely communicating our perspective. We’d be flattered if a brand of that scale and that size would want to participate, but I think the other factor too is how much our audience would want to see them at WindUp. If they wanted to make it the Rolex show, we would decline the opportunity and hope to work with them in other ways.

WI: It would be a great affirmation of everything you’ve done though.

BM: Yeah, that would be great I agree.